Interview with Sean Carmichael of spiteful urinator / atavistic

Please introduce yourself. What bands have you have been a part of? Can you tell us about other members as well as bands they have been a part of?

Hello, I'm Sean and have been into Punk since 1983 when visiting a school friends house in Ascot Park, Porirua and his older brother was playing The Exploited "Troops of tomorrow" I was hooked straight away.

My first foray into playing and recording in a band was a short-lived band from Cambridge in 1986 called False Existance. We released a 5-song demo entitled "Our Dead Reality" which I sold to people around the country. I think we played one party.

The first actual band that I was in who played live was Animosity with Dane, Steve, and Dave. We were active in 1989-90 and played shows both here in Hamilton and in Auckland with bands such as Migraine, Anigma, and Cardiac Arrest. Around this time Gore Story also came to exist which was the first band I played drums in, with Dane on bass/vocals and Aaron on guitar. We played a few shows locally and even ventured to New Plymouth to play with Das Unter Mensch. Gore Story recorded a demo at Musicare in September 1990 which was later released as a cassette on United Blasphemy (the label I created with Dane to release our own music).

Now we move to the 90's where it was all go.

After the demise of Animosity and Gore Story, Dane and I formed "Evil Trouts of Death" with Steve Mclennan on guitar (Zooper) and Daniel Lomas on vocals (Vassafor). We played shows both here (Hamilton) and in Auckland. We changed the name to Die Zeu Gen after Dane left and was replaced by Ricky on bass. We did some more shows then quit. E.T.O.D released a cassette called "Beautiful Songs for Ugly Children" in 1991 recorded at Musicare.

Then begins the metal years.

After E.T.O.D, we formed Azazel and were joined by Craig Williamson on bass/vocals (Datura, Arc of Ascent) and Rory Daysh on guitar (Sinfeeder, Enshrine) with myself on drums and Dane on vocals. Shows were played here and in Mount Maunganui with Blatant, S.M.U.T, Quorthon, and others. Azazel recorded and released two cassettes, "Azazel" in 1992 and "Nocturnal Cognation" also in 1992. Azazel morphed into Sinfeeder when Craig left and Dane moved to bass guitar and Sean McGlynn (Quorthon, F.I.C) joined on vocals. Sinfeeder played around the North Island in Napier, Wellington, Auckland, and of course Hamilton, with bands such as Entrophy, Pungent Stench, Quorthon, Valhalla, and more. We released three cassettes all on United Blasphemy as well as a split 7" acetate with Quorthon. Rory, Dane, and myself had also formed "Enshrine" at this stage and were busy busting out a couple of cassettes, namely "Equality is for Equals" in 1993 and "Burning" in 1994. Sinfeeder and Enshrine both played at the "Death Metal Festival" in Wellington with Demoniac.

Finally, we get to "In Torment", our tenure into the Black Metal abyss which once again saw the line up as Dane on bass/vocals, Rory on guitar, Sean M on guitar and me on drums. We never played live but did release two "Demo" tapes in 1994 and 1995 and this was where I parted ways with Dane for close to 10

years as we both pursued other directions in music.

Rory and myself along with my brother Jarrod formed Dabunka and set about releasing a 7" acetate entitled "Death Clown" and played a show in Auckland at Books from the Black Lagoon, a place run by Ross & Lynn (as well as others) who used to put on regular shows for both local and out of town travelling bands and the odd international (Varukers, Citizen Fish and All You Can Eat). Not long after this, Jarrod left and it was just Rory and I who continued on, eventually recording and releasing a CD call "Forcefed the Backlash" in 1997.

Next up was my brief stint in the Hardcore Scene in Hamilton after I answered an ad put up by Kaleb and Daniel Bennett, and along with Brad we started jamming at Stage 7. We played a couple of times but I don't think we ever settled on a name. Brad and Daniel left and were replaced by Gabe on bass/vocals (Gawj), Simon on guitar (Gaywyre, School of Meat) and finally Rory was back in the mix on guitar, which was rounded off by myself on drums and Kaleb on vocals. Atavistic was formed. We did a few recordings, played a few shows, had Mark McGeady (Vendetta, Arc of Ascent) join on drums for a few shows, then we imploded when everyone either moved away or got bored, or moved away because they got bored?

Roll along four years of not being involved in any bands or active in any part of the scene at all, which was mainly due to having a young family and studies and working, you know all those "life" things.

I bumped into Dane in town one day and we got talking and decided we should form a band so we got Gabe (Atavistic) in as well and we started Upsett, the band first, then came the shop. Upsett changed to Gawj when we opened Upsett Records on Victoria Street. Upsett was created and run by myself, Dane and Gabe. Gawj was initially a three-piece consisting of Dane on bass/lead vocals, Gabe on guitar/vocals and me on drums. Overtime we added James Casey (Boring Girls, Viking Weed) on second guitar and Glenn on vocals. We played live with this line up a few times then Glenn got usurped by Kaleb (Atavistic) and then Gabe and James bolted and were replaced by two young wild stallions called Brad and Zane (Aborted Christians, Dogcock) till we died a slow death, by popular demand. Gawj released a series of badly recorded Limited CD-r's which never sold, and then we released a 7" on German label Idoneum Bello in 2009 entitled "So Far Away From Giving A Fuck That We Can't Be Seen". At the same time Gawj were laying waste to people's ear drums and sense of what music should be, I was also asked to join Coffee Rage on Vocals. I said yes and joined Rhett (Contenders, Asscharger) on drums, Dane on bass and Chris (My Brother Got Mulched, Malparido) on guitar and vocals. Fun times lay ahead, well until it all fell apart in a van outside Midnight on Cuba Street. We did a few recordings and released a split 7" with US band Sick/Tired on Idoneum Bello / United Blasphemy. Both Gawj and Coffee Rage basically ended in quick succession and I somehow felt the need to think I could play a guitar and do away with the drum kit so with the help of a few regulars "Open Tomb" was born of a hostile womb.

Open Tomb started with Kaleb on bass and samples, Dane on drums and myself on guitar/vocals. Definitely a cosmic shift in style from anything before - doom, sludge, funeral - basically the polar opposite of Gawj. Kaleb left to move to Auckland and Tonamu (Halcyon Birds, Der Kranks) joined on bass/vocals. We played some shows and did some recording and released a split LP with Meth Drinker, a

cassette on Zero Style, then another cassette on UK label Dry Cough, followed by an LP also released on Dry Cough. During Open Tomb’s existence we also formed Spiteful Urinator as a cathartic burst of d-beat energy to break up the monotonous funeral doom that Open Tomb were playing. Same guys, same instruments, just replacing 18 minute songs with 1 minute songs. The idea was make up 6-8 songs in two practices then record them and forget them then get back to the Tomb. We did this three times and released three CD-r's over 8 months (Death Death Death, Death for Fun & Profit, and Work Crimes) in 2013-14. Open Tomb went into permanent hiatus after Dane hurt his wrist and required surgery but it's never been right again so we asked Bryan (Bludgers) if he wanted to drum for us and he said yes so basically the lineup was solid for about 4-5 years. We released some more CD-r's and cassettes and two 7" records (one with local scum "Dogcock"), played way more shows than we wanted to or should have, then Tonamu left. New Bassist Greshym joined and we released another split 7" with Scavenger from Melbourne this year, plus another fucking CD-r... and about a million t-shirts designs :D

As well as the above documented bands that exist via recordings there were also projects that had songs written but never evolved and folded after short life spans, which is understandable when you are playing music with people. These were Broken Silence, Atrocious, Mortuary, and Sullen.

And that, my friends, is that!

35 years summed up in a few shitty paragraphs, I wouldn't have it any other way, or would I?

As one of NZ's longest active punks, what was the local scene like in the late 80s early 90s? Has it changed much over the years? What bands were around back then?

Obviously communication was the key back in the 80s and 90s. With no Internet or mobile phones it basically was down to flyers, fanzines, and word of mouth to find out what shows were on and where they were happening. It helped having friends in Auckland that we could keep in touch with and arrange shows together. The scene back then was basically the same as it is now, you have your different groups of people who may sometimes like the same bands and attend the same shows, but generally speaking, the scene has always remained the same. Good people come and good people go, things get fucked up by idiots, rumours get spread, venues get treated like shit till they close and people moan about it, yet never try and fix things themselves. You know the usual stuff attributed to this scene.

Back in the mid to late 80s I put on a few shows at Clarence Street Hall (Anytime Fitness is on that site now) and Moa Crescent in Frankton with bands from Auckland such as Anigma, The Plague, Second Child, Phobia, Our Kind, and Conditioned Response. There were other venues and promoters who ran events at the same halls and put on classic NZ bands like Sticky Filth, Casualty, Migraine and Toxic Avengers. There were a few shows at St Peter's Hall in Victoria Street as well, SNFU even played there.

There was also Rockafellas in Frankton that put on shows in the early 1990s. I did a few there including one featuring Heathen Filth, Corpus, Atrocious, DieZeuGen, Churchface, Shike, and the Gannet Hurtlers. There is footage of this on YouTube somewhere.

During the mid to late 90s there were a lot of shows at Ward Lane Tavern; it was a really great place to

play and hang out. There were also shows at a place called "The Fairmont Lounge" during the early 1990s that I also helped put on with friends from Migraine, Animosity, Ethiopian Beer Pots, Requiem, SMUT, Blatant, and Quorthon.

Also, we had Wailing Bongo at the University that did some good local release shows in conjunction with Contact FM, and hosted a few international bands like D.O.A, No Means No, and Pungent Stench.

This of course relates just to our local scene here in Kirikiriroa, and not the rest of Aotearoa. There were obviously scenes throughout the whole of New Zealand which you were generally made aware of from fanzines like One World, Communicade, Anarchy Outrage and Serious Intent (great title), Anti System and A.N.I

You have been actively doing music with Dane Bailey for over 20 years now. Are there any stories or memories you can share with us? What is it that keeps the fire burning to create music together after all these years? And how has the whole DIY approach helped you both when it came to releasing music, etc?

I first met Dane in 1988 when we started Animosity. I can't remember how we actually met, I'll have to ask him. It's been like a marriage, good times and then some that weren't so good, but mostly it's been fun. We just share a love of good music and I count him as a very close friend and someone I respect and admire. Dane has always been the sensible one out of nearly all the band members we have shared over the years, it's normally me who pulls some dumb shit on the road or at a show. One memorable time was when Sinfeeder and Quorthon were playing a show in Napier. Firstly, we missed the turn off at Taupō and had to turn back on the desert road. We then decided it would be a great idea to stop at every pub from Taupō to Napier. Things got messy, hanging out the van door on the open road, vomiting and having a great time. We didn't play that well when we got to Napier.

DIY is the only way to get anything achieved in such a niche genre as punk or metal in this country. Being so far away from the rest of the world the only way to get anything done is to do it yourself. This stems way back to the tape trading era when we use to trade with other punks and metal heads from all round the world. We used to send demo cassettes to radio stations who had specialist metal shows in the US and France. This got us some exposure and people would write and we would do trades. We actually never really sold a lot overseas, it was more trades than anything else. We would make the covers, dub the tapes and make little flyers to include in packages we sent out. The whole DIY mindset comes from no support from the outside world so you just have to start your own label, do your own artwork, promotion and even your own recordings. It's a great way to have complete artistic control over your own music and imagery.

Can you tell us about your 'Mad blasts of Chaos’ and 'Mad Blasts of Kiwi Chaos' blogs? What was the drive behind it and how long did you run them for? Will we see anything similar from you in the future?

Mad Blasts of Chaos was my main blog that ran for 10 years and the object was to introduce people to the massive range of punk and metal this planet had to offer from Japanese d-beat to NWOBHM, from

Scandinavian crust demo CD-r's to Norwegian black metal, from some obscure New Zealand compilation only released on cassette in the 1980s to pop punk. I have a broad range of musical tastes, so I thought it would be good to inflict this on the general public. Mad Blasts of Kiwi Chaos never really reached the potential I wanted it to be, purely out of a lack of time and inspiration.

I did start a MBOC YouTube channel but that has been dormant for over a year now. I prefer to just listen to music instead of spending my spare time (which is not much) pushing musical crack to addicts.

In the 2000s, Upsett Records was a key fixture in Hamilton and New Zealand punk, providing quality merch as well as hosting shows including international acts such as Madball, Limp Wrist, and the Evens. How did Upsett records come about and can you tell us a bit about it?

As mentioned in an earlier answer, Dane, Gabe and myself started a band called Upsett and we got talking about opening a record store. Gabe found the space that suited us at 333 Victoria Street. It had a great retail space as well as a large area for show which we called the Red Room. There was also a rehearsal space and an area we would later rent out to some Artists. It really was ideal apart from the issue that it didn't have a street level shop. It was up the stairs next to an massage parlour which was funny as we used to get a few of their clients coming into the shop by mistake.

We ran Upsett (later it became No Way Out) from 2005 until 2007. It was a short existence, but we put on over 60 shows with a ton of local bands, New Zealand touring bands and a few international acts from Australia and the USA. These included Carpathian, Death By Stereo, The Draft, The Evens, The Jonestown Syndicate, Stolen Youth, Limp Wrist, Most Precious Blood, Wish For Wings, Parkway Drive, Skinless, Unpaid Debt, Schifosi, Wish For Wings, and Madball.

We enjoyed it's short existence, but we did struggle with day to day sales and in the end we had to put on shows just to cover rent, which becomes quite frustrating very quickly as anyone who has had a venue or a retail shop would attest to. I'm not saying it was all bad, in fact it was really fun and we had some great bands through and it was always a good feeling introducing people to new music from genres they might not have been into before.

Favourite era of NZHC/NZ punk and is there anything you don't miss about previous eras of punk and HC?

Well your interviewing someone who thinks there was no good music after the 80s, so my personal choice would be the late 80s, but those were sone seriously violent times, when punk was still a threat to everyone and everything.

Basically, all decades have had some great bands, great shows, and awesome people who I'm still friends with now, the whole country included, from Wellington scum like Drug Problem to those wonderful guys from Conniption in Dunedin to the insane house shows at Thrash Palace on Te Aroha St, and numerous great shows at Whammy and The Kings Arms. It all adds up to a very eclectic and diverse scene that is always there, you just have to go to shows, buy local releases and frankly, enjoy yourself and not take it all too seriously.

You have raised a family throughout your time in the scene. What has being a punk dad meant to you and has it impacted your family in a positive way?

My children would say I'm an embarrassment but I know they think I'm super cool ... haha. I try and let my children make their own way in this world and I hope I have instilled some sense of morals and kindness that they have taken to heart. I never really considered myself a punk parent, just a parent like many others. The Vegan/Vegetarian lifestyle was probably the main thing but it's purely their choice. Neither of my spawn have any interest in Punk Rock, so I failed miserable there.

Top 5 bands or albums that influenced you the most over the years and why?

Fuck, this is a tough one ... I'm gonna lean more towards labels than bands.

Crass Records and the whole UK Anarcho Punk scene. I used to write to Crass back in the 80s and used to buy my records direct from them so got introduced to some mighty impressive bands like Conflict, DIRT, The Mob, Rudimentary Peni, Omega Tribe, Alternative, Flux of Pink Indians, Anthrax, and of course Crass. These bands, and this label in particular, instilled a strong belief in animal and human rights and freedoms that I still hold onto to this day.

Discharge - crushing, genre defining, perfection. Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing is, without doubt the best punk LP ever committed to vinyl.

No Future and Riot City Records, the home to the UK82 and Oi! movements of the third wave of British punk. Timeless classics that even made their ways to these shores to be pressed locally by Music World down in Christchurch. The roster on these two labels was mind-blowing - The Partisans, Blitz, Chaos UK, Disorder, Mayhem, The Blood, Undead, Peter & The Test Tube Babies, The Violators, Vice Squad, The Wall, Red Alert, The Ejected, Chaotic Dischord ... the list goes on. Not to mention the classic Punk and Disorderly trilogy.

Any and all Bad Religion records including Into The Unknown. They are my all-time favorite band in the world. No Control would be their best record IMO.

Catharsis - Samsara, intense brutally crushing Hardcore, this is a record that I play a lot, it never seems to be any less of an assault from the previous listen. Perfection.

Also, US Labels such as SST, Pusmort, Dischord and Alternative Tentacles. All had ground breaking bands that defined their era in hardcore and punk.

Has your music consumption changed over the years? What does an aging punker do to wind down, and is there any music outside punk/HC/metal that you enjoy?

I'm sure it has changed over the years, I'm keen on a little melody these days. I still listen to my Japanese punk records mixed in with some d-beat or metal from around the world. I also like female-fronted punk and metal bands like Terrible Feelings, GOLD, Knugen Faller, Siouxsie and the Banshees, even the Bangles every now and then.

I also really like Adele and have most of her records and went to her concert in Auckland.

Spiteful Urinator has consistently released music from 2013 through until now. Wizz Kids were such a good Hamilton band. Can you tell us how that split and others came about?

John from Zero Style wanted to put that split with Wizz Kids out, we just included the tracks from our "Death Death Death" CD-r, I honestly don't think much thought was given to it. If we are involved in a split release it's because we are friends with the other band or have played with them a few times. So far, it's been Trepanation, Dog Cock and Scavenger.

Who has been involved in the making of your logo and artwork? Do you have a favourite release so far?

Basically, Dane handles all the artwork, he creates it all. Logos, cover art, flyers, t-shirts, he does it all, which is great. Artwork wise, I like the collages he does, especially the Open Tomb ones, quite confronting. Musically, well you have to like the stuff you’re releasing don't you? My favorite would be the second Enshrine Demo "Burning" for drums, the first Coffee Rage demo for vocals and the Servants of Slow Cassette by Open Tomb for guitar.

Any tips or advice for up-and-coming NZ HC/punk/metal bands?

Not really, plus I don't think I'm the mentoring type ... haha. Just do what you want, it's what we have always done. Sure you piss people (or entire cities) off, but hey, no one really cares.

Thanks for your time. Would you like to give any final shout outs to end the interview?

Cheers and thanks for being patient with my slow old ass taking an age to answer these questions.

Hey hey to Dane & Rhett.