Interview with Sam Coates from End of an Empire

Please introduce yourself and tell us what bands you have been a part of?

Firstly, thanks so much for this opportunity. I'm Sam; I'm what you might call an ageing hardcore kid. Originally from Hamilton, I moved to Wellington for university, and it's been my home since. My first band was really short-lived; we only played two shows and used slightly different names for both (This Fortress for the first show at the end of 2005, Fortress for the second show at the start of 2006). We were very much inspired by Figure Four.

After that project kinda fizzled out, a bunch of life circumstances interfered, and it wasn't until 2009 that Declaration AD started up. That band finished up in 2015, and while there was a project in the works in the years after that (which never got off the ground), it wasn't until 2019 that End of An Empire began to take shape. EOAE played its first show in mid-February 2020, just in time for the world to fall apart.

You have been around a long time now, tell us about your introduction to nzhc and what bands were around at the time?

It's really strange for me to think that I've been around for a while, because I see a bunch of people in the NZHC world who have been there so much longer, but then I realise that it's almost 20 years since I started going to shows... Maaaan, I feel old.

I got into hardcore through friends in high school, but it definitely took a while. The guys I was around most in school (who were into heavy music) were more into the Ozzfest styles of metal—bands like Slipknot, Coal Chamber, Cradle of Filth and the list goes on. I definitely wasn't into that. I was someone who got pretty severe depression when I was 15, and mentally I just didn't need dudes playing horror tropes and singing about maggots and the like. So for a decent while,  I didn't think I liked anything to do with heavier music. My gateway in was more through punk—bands like Millencolin, Unwritten Law, MxPx, Dogwood, and to bring it local, This Night Creeps. I think where it all clicked was seeing the music video for StretchArmStrong's song For The Record (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDjGapg6h4). It was a total lightbulb moment: Oh, I get THIS. I think This Night Creeps were my introduction into the Hamtown scene, through some friends who were more on the punk side of the genre fence. But after seeing hardcore bands live, I was hooked. I did know the Jordan brothers at school, but getting into hardcore wasn't actually through them (which seems odd, looking back).

The bands (hardcore and adjacent genres) I remember being around when I was first diving into hardcore were One Must Fall, Twenty One Guns, The Warpath, Brick vs Face, The Deadline, This Night Creeps, Cold By Winter, Kill Me Quickly, Evil Priest, Fever Lake, Bleeders, Then I Said Why, Killdeer. Probably a bunch that I'm forgetting.

Would you say the culture has changed for the better or for the worse over the years and why?

This is a question that I don't know if I can answer in a generalised way, because I've always thought there were pockets of different cultures that have existed within the hardcore (and similar) scene(s), and they've never been uniform to me. Even fans of the same bands across different cities have different vibes to me. I remember first moving to Wellington and realising the shows were such a different feel to Hamilton. They generally started way later at night, and there were less people who had that basketball jersey look. I think I might have turned up thinking that a Wellington hardcore show in 2004 would look pretty much the same as a Hamilton one, and that wasn't the case. It was still awesome (please don't get me wrong), but it was different.

So, to me, the culture of the individual scenes has always been really varied, and it's hard to say whether it's better or worse now. I think a more reliable way of assessing this question is around how many bands are playing, whether people are putting on shows, whether people are still coming out to see bands. That's definitely ebbed and flowed a bunch over the years. A few years ago (before Covid), it seemed like there weren't nearly as many bands doing things, but right now it feels like a real upswing in both younger bands, and veterans putting together newer projects—and that's exciting.

I was super impressed watching your current band End of an empire live. Definitely looking forward to seeing you again live soon. I have high hopes for E.O.A.E. What goals and future plans do you have for the band?

Thanks so much for that! It felt really good playing the show we did together (Roll The Bones 3, Dead Witch, Auckland), and I was hyped on the reaction we got. EOAE is a band that Hamish (guitarist, who was also in Declaration AD) and I started because we were both lacking a creative outlet at the time. I'm really proud of the music we're making, but I don't think EOAE will be playing shows as frequently as DecAD was. Apart from our drummer, we're all in our 30s and have some fairly serious responsibilities. We'll do shows here and there where we can. It's definitely been a strange time to be in a band, with how slow things have been for shows during the brunt of the pandemic. We've almost finished writing our second album (which we are planning on recording this year), yet we've barely played these songs live to people.

Within, Without was released in 2020 and the song that stood out the most to me was the 1st song 'The Feeling'. Can you speak about the lyrics to the song and what keeps the fire burning for an older nzhc veteran in 2022?

That song was a reflection on why I'd do a band at all. When Declaration AD finished up, I was ready for a break. I was working long hours at my job at an advertising agency and really felt like my life was divided between being at work and being in a band. In the years after, I met my the woman who is now my wife, we got married, and I tried to get the balance of life back in order. So when it came to doing a band again, I was reminded of how much I love doing this, and how I missed being able to yell about all the things that go on in the world (and in my mind). The upshot is that I didn't want to stop doing music just because I've gotten older; I want to still be able to feel that rush and exhilaration like I don't have any responsibilities for those moments.

What are your top 10 most influential bands or albums that have influenced you the most over the years?

This list could change at any time (it's so hard to narrow down!), so right now:

Simon & Garfunkel—The Essential Simon & Garfunkel

I'm dead serious about this. Simon & Garfunkel are one of my favourite artists ever, and probably the reason I actually like music in the first place. I keep going back to this again and again.

Stretch Arm Strong—A Revolution Transmission

As I said above, Stretch Arm Strong was the first band I heard where I think I really “got” hardcore. I owe a lot to this album.

Dogwood—Building a Better Me

One of my favourite skate-punk albums, and one of the gateway bands that got me on the road to hardcore. Being a Jesus guy, I loved that this album was legitimately GOOD (at least in my opinion) while being made by Christians (hahaha).

Madball—Hold It Down

I probably don't need to say much about this one. Great record.

Advent—Naked & Cold

Absolutely crushing record. Metalcore the way I like it. The only band-specific tattoo I have is a line from the song Nothing on this record.

Further Seems Forever—How to Start a Fire

This is my favourite emo record, and FSF are one of the few emo bands that I still want to listen to today. I got to see them playing songs off this record in San Francisco in 2016, and it remains one of the best shows I've ever seen.

GraveMaker—Ghosts Among Men

This is probably the closest to perfection musically for my taste in hardcore. There's a peppering of melodic sensibility among the heaviness, some awesome grooves, and they're great playing with the dynamics of a song. Hugely underrated band.

Millencolin—Pennybridge Pioneers

I come back to this one again, and again, and again. I thought I was over it, that it had lost its magic. But no. Perfect mix of feel-good and reflective pop/skate punk.

The Warriors—Genuine Sense of Outrage

I love this band so much, and this was probably their pinnacle record for me. I know most of my friends think The Warriors suck, but it hits just right for me.

The Chase—Sirens

I wanted to put in a NZHC release, and I think this might just be my favourite. Incredible songwriting, really anguished vocals and subject material. So raw and honest, just like hardcore should be.

Name some current NZ bands to watch out for and why?

I'm sure anyone who's reading this knows about ColdxWar, Wolves, Gravel Pit, Drop Off Point, BrainWave (all of which are great!), so I wanna shout out some bands that I don't think get as much love:

Happy Valley are an awesome post-hardcore band, who are a real spectacle to see live. Hamish (their vocalist) has also carried the torch for putting on all-ages shows in Wellington the past few years.

Melanie are a punk/emo band from Auckland who are just phenomenal. Great songwriters and very engaging live.

Our drummer Jerome has another band called Mums in Their Forties, who are kinda surf-punk and are also great. Definitely, one that you want to check if you think that sounds fun.

I was also really impressed by Stacked, who played first at Roll The Bones 3. They're super young, too, so should be one to watch for a while.

Declaration AD (R.I.P) formed in Wellington in 2009 and achieved a lot over the years, from sharing stages with international bands, touring NZ, constant shows and releasing some great music. Who lived at the flat known as 44 hardcore and is there any memories you would like to share from this era?

Thanks for the kind words. I feel like Declaration AD was pretty divisive when it was going. Some people really backed us, others thought we were really terrible. The truth was probably somewhere between the two. It was a fun time of learning how to be a band, as some of the dudes had never been in one before. We got a lot of amazing opportunities from being willing to help out with putting on shows—whether some of the dudes were mixing or helping supply backline. We definitely owe a lot to Olly Martin for hooking us up when things were getting going (thanks Olly!). I think the best memories for me include having people appreciate the lyrics around men needing to treat women better (Better Man in particular) and the boldness it takes to keep going under mental health challenges (Endure). That means a bunch to me. I think also making friends with people from other cities (the guys in The Voyage in particular) really made for some great times.

The flat 44HC was what felt like the band's first home base. I never lived there, but Kirk (guitar), Dave (drums) and Steve (guitar in the early days—went on to sing for Too Late) lived there, as well as Bo Paterson (ColdxWar vocals and artist extraordinaire) and our dude Joseph (who plays drums in a bunch of bands and ran the Will Not Fade music blog).

What is your favourite Declaration AD song and what makes it stand out from the others?

Endure, from the Voices EP (2012). It's my attempt at writing a mental health anthem, based around my experience of suffering some pretty intense depression over the years. It's really awful how those types of mental health challenges can cause us to want to give up the things that we really love and enjoy, because we can start to believe we're not good enough or worthy enough to be able to enjoy them. So writing those lyrics was all about making a statement that I wasn't going to give in to that illness. It was definitely the most cathartic song to sing live, and some of the singalongs we got for the ending section were incredible.

Do you still refer to yourself as being Straight Edge? What positive impact has it had on you over the years?

Yes, I do. I think that I've always viewed straightedge as something positive for me, and not related to anyone else's particular drinking/drug-taking. One of the emphases I've tried to have in my life is just being faithful in the small things, without necessarily making a big public show of it. That's how I've tried to approach being straight edge (I remember X'ing up for a few shows when I was younger, but quickly decided that I wasn't interested in doing that so much). I think I've got a fairly addictive personality, and I've seen drinking (and drugs) do some harm in my wider family. I think I'm a better version of myself sober, and that's the life I've chosen for me. I've also saved a tonne of money (haha) from not buying booze.

How has having a D.I.Y attitude helped you over the years and why?

DIY has always been a big part of the punk/hardcore ethos, and I think I've been encouraged to bring in skills and knowledge that I've obtained from other areas into doing things within a band context. I'm a commercial graphic designer by day, so I've been able to do the majority of my bands' album artwork and merch designs myself, which is both fun and a way to save some coin. I've also worked on production crews as a stage hand/stage manager, and done a little live sound mixing, so these are things I've been also able to help out with at shows over the years. Other than that, I think I've really tried to be someone who's good to work with—reliable, supportive, positive. I think that's tied to a DIY attitude because in those instances, you can't hide behind the veil of “the customer is always right” or just being able to throw money at a problem to fix it. You have to be able to work with people. Hopefully I have embodied that attitude.

Thanks for your time. Are there any last words or shoutouts you would like to end the interview with?

Thanks for reaching out and asking me to do this, it's very much appreciated! I'd also like to thank Olly Martin, James Harris, Vasely and Hamish Morgan (who have been pretty instrumental in booking us for shows), Capital Vineyard Church (which let Declaration AD practice for years and let us host some pretty cool all-ages shows), Joram Adams (who did the recording of the EOAE album for such a great rate), and anyone who's been into the music I've been a part of.

I also appreciate all the work you guys (Garreth & Bones) have put into documenting and archiving the history of NZHC, so thank you for that as well.

Thanks Sam, I appreciate your time bro.

You're very welcome.