Interview with Rhys Owen Of Forced to Submit
Please introduce yourself, and tell us what bands you have been a part of?
Hey, my name is Rhys Owen, I’m 48 years old and tried my best to do vocals in Vext, Bloodbox and Forced to Submit.
Tell us a bit about your introduction to the hardcore scene in the 90s?
dean sacred was the first proper "hardcore kid" I ever met. he was going out with a girl I went to high school with. would have been 1989 or 1990 I reckon. he came up to Mangawhai and hung out with us for a few weekends. I moved to Auckland in late 1991 for university and dean went to hamilton for his tattoo apprenticeship. we lost touch for a couple of years but teamed up again when he moved back to Auckland and I started seeing a girl there around the same time. we bumped into each other on queen street one afternoon and he invited me to a gig at his place which was on upper queen street at the time. control and structure from hamilton were playing and probably an Auckland band but I don't remember exactly who. dean had lent me a bunch of hardcore records previously, Sick of it All, Judge, Bold, Youth of Today, no for an answer. all old school stuff that I’m not a fan of at all but it was different to what I was already listening to like cryptic slaughter, suicidal tendencies, DRI, GBH, exploited along with metal stuff like deicide, morbid angel, obituary, pestilence etc. lots of old thrash as well, slayer, Kreator, Anthrax, Metallica. that old school hardcore seemed pretty weak comparing it to early 90's death metal but I was intrigued by this hardcore music and so I stuck around, met a bunch of people at the first show dean invited me to and eventually hardcore got a Metallic edge to it and I was hooked.
Describe the 1995 Sick of it all show at Frankton hall, and the influence it had on nzhc?
sick of it all was basically the only record I really liked from that bunch dean lent me, I had heard Agnostic Front before that but had no idea it was called hardcore so the penny dropped and I discovered the rest of the NYHC scene after that. Frankon railway hall SOIA show was great. pretty much everyone from Auckland drove down (as did hamilton kids to Auckland when the shows were on). it was ruckus from start to end. pretty sure structure and control supported that night as well. I remember one massive pile on that was so big you had to climb up it to get on top. I rolled down the heap of bodies only to notice the control bass players legs and bass sticking out from the bottom of the pile, still playing but totally buried in people. at a guess, it may have been one of the first "hardcore" international bands to tour here? punk bands had come earlier and definitely metal but maybe not hardcore so it was a great spark to fire up the existing local hardcore bands and give them some inspiration in my opinion.
How did throwdown dancing come about in NZ, and how did you receive the nickname 'Crowd Slayer'?
originally I was Rhys "the windmill" Owen which I think dave DSM may have come up with but I’m not sure. crowdslayer came later with the introduction of the "crowdslayer" move where you run from one side of the pit, handstand just before the other side and launch feet first into the crowd. I always saved it for when my mates were on the other side mostly! cash was the first person I knew who had the internet, I remember a big group of us sitting around at his place watching show footage from the US of hardcore dancing. there was one clip of a shaved head dude in a black tshirt, black jeans and doc boots (similar to how I used to dress minus the boots at this stage) just ruining everyone, someone commented that it looked like me (because all bald guys look the same right! ha!) and right there and then I decided that was how I was going to dance at hardcore shows from now on. we studied those videos, worked out the moves and took them to shows. like a bloody dance competition! ha! throwdown dancing definitely caused a few problems at local shows here and a lot of effort went into trying to stop it from some band members who thought it was too much. yeah, it made it rough and you got some hard knocks if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time but the mosh was evolving and it took over. it was a big part of what inspired my love of hardcore, the energy, the dedication and the rush of seeing and being involved in a big circle pit of guys and girls slugging it out showing their enthusiasm for the bands they love. some the bands fed off it completely and they played with more energy and gratitude because of it. I always said, "if you can't take the hits stay out of the pit".
Would you say NZ had a part in moulding Aussie throwdown dance, and can you tell us about the Aussie 'hardcore super bowl' you attended?
it was the 1998 hardcore Superbowl I attended, balance played on the Friday night and Sunday matinee show in Sydney, Saturday night was in Newcastle. 11 kiwis went over for it. strife played on the Thursday night, not part of the Superbowl just good timing that coincided with the Superbowl. there were some great local bands every night, ceasefire, arms reach, toe to toe and so many others I can't remember. toe to toe supported strife and a few of us jumped in and got the windmills going only to have the singer kick one of our friends from the stage and exclaim "you're going to hurt someone dancing like that". we backed off and left the crowd to their continuous mid paced circle pit for every entire song. I was well confused but left them to it. once stife hit the stage it was the kiwi takeover, most of our 11 strong crew threw down and showed Aussie how hardcore dancing was done. it hadn't been seen there before and we no doubt upset more people than we realised. the next night balance played and we went it again in support. unfortunately one of our friends managed to windmill into the top of another guys head and cut him open with the metal watch strap he was wearing which ended up in A&E requiring stitches we heard later on. we hit the train on Saturday afternoon bound for Newcastle and again took over the pit completely dancing our hardest for not only balance but arms reach as well. the local crowd had no idea what hit them and stood back in disbelief most of the time. our arrival back in Sydney for the Sunday matinee was when the trouble started, word was out that a bunch of kiwis were ruining the Superbowl and a big crew of aussies turned out to match us during balance's set. they were attempting to dance like us but with the intention of hitting us and the pit got pretty rough. I got clotheslined off my feet by one guy and ended up in a bit of a wrestle with another guy tightly gripping onto each other to avoid taking the first hit I think. this was in the middle of the pit while balance were playing. a big bunch of guys started building up behind him and I was way over my head so I started to back up still holding on tightly only to back into a wall of the kiwi crew supporting me. by this time balance had stopped playing and it was going to turn to shit pretty quick I thought. luckily the promoter came out by then and took the microphone off mike and announced that "if all you guys don't stop with this Jackie chan shit I’m going to cancel the show". in hindsight that was the best thing that could have happened really and we all calmed down and the show went on. from that day on "violent dancing" was an Australian staple diet at shows. NZ took it there, no question.
Favourite Nz show you played and why?
Through my involvement with the hardcore scene forced to submit got asked to play a lot of show with hardcore bands, pretty sure I wasn't a dick to everyone and have remained good friends with many people in both the metal and hardcore crews. I always organised shows with hardcore and death metal bands as it was a way for me to get to see both genre's in one event. the best of the best every time. It only ran for 3 years but my "battles in the north" trilogy still gets praised to this day. All our purely metal gigs aside for a local show with hardcore bands I’d have to say getting to play with kill me quickly, graymalkin and promise of bloodshed at the kings arm was a highlight as well as suporting antagonist and the red shore being another amazing show.
Tell us about Bloodbox and Ireland?
bloodbox was a stripped down version of vext that splash and I continued in Ireland once we were both in that country in 2001. vext was tyrone from premature autopsy on bass, Phil from vassafor on guitar with splash making all the sampled drum patterns electronically and splash and I screaming over the whole lot. very experimental industrial death metal meets drum n bass meets japanese noise. bloodbox was similar musically with a bit more grindcore sampling and totally electronic backing tracks with splash and I screaming. quite a spectacle I imagine, two dudes screaming and growling like nutters to a musical backing track of some of the harshest multiple genre "music" you have ever heard.
Top 5 bands or albums that influenced you the most over the years?
like I said apart from agnostic front and sick of it all I didn't really take notice of hardcore until the metallic stuff started coming out but if I had to cut it down to 5 I’d say:
agnostic front - live at CBGB
earth crisis - destroy the machines
hatebreed - satisfaction is the death of desire
morning again - martyr
out to win - persist and destroy
xibalba - tierra y libertad
Any last words or advice for the up and coming bands in NZ?
that's a big question, my advice would likely fall on deaf ears these days. I don't know really, hardcore for me needs to be fast, slow, heavy and always aggressive. delivered in a way that it's going to hurt you if you don't watch out. I think it's the death metaller in me that wants it to be like that. I find it calming to be honest, I’m less stressed and more relaxed once I’ve listened to a few records of people venting their rage through their music.
Would you like to give some final shout outs to end the interview?
i don't attend many hardcore shows anymore, covid aside I’m getting old and surfing and my family is taking priority more and more. I live up north working a job I love. I walk to work, I walk to the beach and live modestly. I have fond memories of all the shows and band members I’m friends with and i'm not the best at keeping in touch but thanks to this Facebook page and your tireless work documenting everything you find I get to be reminded every now and then of people I need to call so I do. my shout out goes solely to Bones and Gareth. thanks.